Why an Excellent Relationship with Your Copywriter Truly Pays Off

Welcome to PART 3 of our Day in the Life with a Team Member Series! Today we talk to Kate Dramis- she's a conversion copywriting expert (and brand coach) who is here to answer some FAQs that entrepreneurs often have when it comes to copywriting services.

Some of the questions include, “What are the top 3 qualities you should look for when you hire a copywriter?”, “How do you find a copywriter who can capture and write in your voice?”, and “What does the process of working with a copywriter look like?”.


If you've ever considered hiring someone for copywriting work (or maybe you're just thinking about it now), this interview will help answer any big questions you may have while giving you some insight into the process of working with a copywriter. Don’t have time to watch the video? We’ve transcribed it for you below!


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I’m here to encourage you to KEEP GOING when it comes to delegating these kinds of tasks so you can scale your business effectively!

That’s why I’ve compiled a FREE nifty guide of 173 Things You Can Outsource or Delegate. Check it out and see how many other ways there are to free up your time.


Teresa: 00:20                   

All right, so we are here. I'm going to hit record. Thanks for joining us live. For those of you who are on Facebook, we are here back with our series of interviews for day in the life and working with a team member! And I have the lovely Kate Dramis joining us, who is a fabulous copywriter. And we're going to go into some backstory about Kate and how she's come into the copywriting business. And for those of you who are thinking about hiring a copywriter, this segment is for you. So we're just going to get this started and say thank you so much Kate for joining me online. So lovely to have you. I know you just got off of an awesome launch. And so then all the people out there probably want to know who is this Kate Dramis and what is her super power. So please do introduce yourself.

Kate: 01:19                   

Awesome. Okay, well thank you first and foremost for having me. I'm so pumped to be here. Hi to everyone who's live on Facebook. My name is Kate. I'm a conversion copywriting expert. And essentially what that means is I help online experts find their voice, share their voice, and own their voice through copy that gets people opting in, taking action, engaging, and most importantly investing with you so you can continue to grow your impact. So I've always loved to write, I kind of stumbled into copywriting, Teresa. I graduated college, I found a job as a copywriter and I loved writing. I was a journalism major, but I didn't want to go into journalism and I found out that there was a thing called a copywriter at a marketing agency. And I was like, that sounds like a hack. Like how did I find that? Um, and that's, I actually got into content marketing, so I was a content marketing copywriter for a really long time and did blog copy and a lot more long form than what I do today, and then built my freelance business on the side, and then decided that I didn't want to be a freelancer anymore. I didn't want a side hustle. And I actually took it full time and now it's a full fledged copywriting expert business.

Teresa: 02:34                   

Oh my gosh. I love it. And I love that it's really a combination of your passion for writing and also passion from your own story. Cause I know I've heard a little bit about your story and it's so super exciting to see when people are in their super powers combined with their passion and also their purpose and doing this. And I know that that's part of what you love to bring out of people. And so, with that said, I know that and definitely bring it girl. Like I love your, um, I'm just like, oh my gosh, she has her elevator pitch down. I want to fire out an elevator pitch just like you! So yeah, so this whole segment is really about helping people get familiar with what it's like to hire people in their teams who compliment into areas maybe they're not as strong. Right? And so some people I hear all the time like, oh, you know, I'm just not good at copy. And I know you are a copywriter, but you're also a copy coach. So talk to us, talk to the people who are kind of feeling a little weak in the knees when it comes to copy and, and what you have to say about that.

Kate: 03:47                   

Yeah, for sure. So, I am of the belief that everyone should learn copy in some way, shape or form because really I like to look at copy as, I would call it like a car, right? And it takes your audience from point a to point B. And really the fuel behind that is your messaging. And as an online business owner or any business owner, you need to be able to communicate your message and that comes from your purpose. So like what gets you out of bed every day? Why are you doing what you're doing? Why are you helping the people you're helping? And then also like what do your people need to hear from you in order to take action? And it's so important. And I think that oftentimes when we think about copy, we get into this like, oh, it's so technical and like conversion copywriting and formulas and all these things, and there are best practices to copy. And honestly, there's an art to it, but it's also a skill. It's a skill that you can learn, and it's a skill you should learn because you should never be in a position as a business owner where you can't communicate your messaging. And a lot of copywriters, um, are there to help you pull that out, but also like they need, it's very collaborative. It's a very collaborative process. Every client I work with, I'm like, listen, your message comes from you. It comes from the inside. It comes from your alignment, your passion, what your audience needs. You know your audience better than I do coming into your business. So I would say to anyone who's like, oh, copy kind of overwhelms me. Well start with like, get clear in what you're saying. What is it that you need to say in order to inspire someone to take action? Then you can get into all the like, okay here, here's the better way for write it. But first just focus on the message. Like what are you trying to get out into the world?

Teresa: 05:18                   

I love that it's collaborative. I love your approach that you're saying like the message comes from you and you are the expert. I know that, um, like a lot of people when they are outsourcing or like bringing other people on to do the work, it's almost like whole hog. Like here, write my copy for me. And it sounds like you're saying like, well actually the best way is to like collaborate and so tell us a little bit about what that's like and then what, what I would love to do is then kind of like, let's start with the end and then let's go to the beginning of like how it is to find the right copywriter. But some people, a lot of people say like, well what is that like, you know, when you hire a copywriter or do I just like give it to them and they do the research, they do it all or what does that look like? What is a day in the life of working with a copywriter like?

Kate: 06:07                   

Yeah, absolutely. So, every copywriter is different. So I can tell you the way that I structure my one-on-one done for you copywriting service. I call it done for you, but it's like not really, I mean it's done for you as an I'm writing, but again, you're a key component in it. So before I ever write anything, you and I are going to hop on a call and we're going to have a very lengthy conversation. And by lengthy I mean lengthy for a copywriter, like we're probably going to talk for 30 minutes an hour, but I want to know about your business. Like I want to know about how your offers performing, how your copy's performing, what your needs are, what is it that you're offering to the world, what's your message? And then if I see that there's a gap and that the messaging isn't on point, then I'm going to start there with you.

Kate: 06:44                   

And I actually do messaging workshops. So I bring clients on and we do like a two hour to three hour session where we workshop the messaging, the positioning of the offer, of you. We go through your audience, what do they need to buy into, what beliefs or habits do they hold that they need to let go of in order to invest with you. So we go deep into the actual like mapping out, here's the whole picture. Only then do I start writing. So once we have all of that then I'm like, okay, great, you're in alignment on this. You're in agreement. I'm in agreement. This is the best positioning. These are the messages and the themes we want to hit. Now I can take that back and say, cool, I suggest we do six emails on cart open. I suggest they hit these key things that we've discussed. Now I can go out and write them. And it helps so much when you are working collaboration with copywriter to have that buy in early on. That way you're not getting a lot of copy and you're like, what the heck is this? It doesn't sound like me, this doesn't even hit the points I want to hit. I feel like so many people don't get why it's still important to learn copy. Um, they do, they like and they're like, okay, just do it for me. And then they get it back and it doesn't sound like them. It doesn't completely articulate what their offer is, what their offered does, how it transforms lives. There's a disconnect. And this really, really merges that, that gap. And it's been really effective for me. I rarely get edits back on the copy that I send. And part of that is like, yes, I'm a good writer, but also like, I'm, you're with me every step of the way. So you already know, like you're not, it's not a surprise when you get a sales page, it's not a surprise when you get an email sequence.

Teresa: 08:14                   

That's awesome. I mean, I know I've worked with copywriters in corporate but also with my own business. But here's one thing that I just want to throw in a wrench, cause I know people say this all the time to me. Like one of them asked me, well, how do I find a copywriter that can write in my voice? That's one of the things that people are most afraid of. And if you're watching and you're like, yeah, that's me, like let's, let's hear it. People say like, oh, but I have a specific way I talk to my tribe and I have a specific voice and I don't want that to be lost because I think that's part of what makes my copy special. And so, could you talk to that and like how, how does a copywriter capture that and write in that voice?

Kate: 09:02                   

Yeah! Well it's the job of a copywriter, in my opinion, is to be able to study your voice and capture that. And of course if it's a brand new. Like for me, if it's a brand new client, I expect there's probably going to be a little bit of a learning curve. So there's going to be a little bit of the first time I send something. You might be like, oh, I wouldn't word that sentence that way. Or like I tend to say this more, but I'm also going to be asking you for a ton of previously written assets. Like I want to see your past emails, I'm going through your Instagram, I'm going through your videos to see the way you talk because that's my job as a copywriter is to make sure that when someone reads something I write, they think you wrote it, it's coming from you, It's coming from your voice. So I would say lean into that and make sure you're finding a writer who's going to do his or her due diligence. Like make sure that you're going through and you're sending them assets and if you have like a tone document. I know some of my clients have like voice and tone documents that works as well. Um, but it really is, it's the job of the copywriter in my opinion to dive into that and really get a good picture of how you show up before they ever start writing.

Teresa: 10:03                   

Mmm, so good. Okay. We're almost on the cusp of getting to the, like, what do we look for, how do you know how to find a good copywriter? But I do have one more question because this does come up a lot and I know it's come up for me because when I've worked with copywriters, I'm like, I know they have an art and a craft and I totally respect them, but sometimes I do have feedback- so, from the copywriter perspective, I'd love to hear like what is the best way to give that kind of feedback?

Kate: 10:30                   

Absolutely. So I would say either on a call or I do Google Docs with my clients just so they can go in and make suggested edits. And it's, it's really a push and pull process because there are definitely like, at the end of the day it's your piece, right? So like you make all the edits you want on it. I will say from a copywriter's perspective, sometimes there are conversion copywriting principles that are in play. So sometimes it's like the way this sentence is structured or the reason we're leading with this instead of this is for very strategic reasons of like we wanna hit this belief, we want to hit this objection. And so what works best is conversation. I say like, just make your edits and then if it's super off, which it shouldn't be, but if it's off, have that conversation.

Kate: 11:17                   

And maybe give some context into why you change what you change is really helpful. Same to the copywriter. Like the copywriters should be coming in and if they're pushing back against an edit, they should have a reason for it. Cause there's a lot of times that I send copy and I prefaced it, so I'm like hey, just so you know, I hit this, this, and this. This is structured this way because, and I'll give you, like, I'll give you my reasons if I feel like we're not going to be completely aligned on it. So you know where my head's at as you go into make edits for your stuff.

Teresa: 11:45                   

I love it. Yeah. Sometimes like with copy it's like, you know, you have the conversation, something gets written, you get past, you get comments and it all gets lost in the translation of writing, right? It's like trying to give feedback through Slack, right? Or a Google Doc comment and that just doesn't work. So I love that you're saying like, hey, get on the phone, talk about it, give context, et cetera. So, with that, like all this great juicy what it's like to work with a copywriter, I'm sure people are like, oh well I want a copywriter. How do I find a copywriter? So, talk to us- like I know that referrals are a huge way that people find people, but it also may not be the best way. And so what would you recommend is the best way to find a copywriter?

Kate: 12:32                   

So, I would actually say the referral side for the copywriting is huge. If you a network you can tap into, I would tap into that. When I was taking new copywriting clients, I actually never had to market my copywriting business. It was all referral based, which was amazing. And what happens is I feel like there's synergy on both ends because if you're getting referrals from people you trust, then chances are you're probably gonna like the style and the integrity of the writer that they're using. Vice versa, I'm probably going to like your style because people in business in a block together, right? Like if I'm writing for you and your, you know, your business bestie, they probably, you guys probably have some stuff in common that I'm going to like, as a writer. That being said, there are also other platforms, there's a ton of freelancer platforms out there that you can check.

Kate: 13:16                   

But I would really say be focused on a couple different qualities of what you want. So like if you want someone who's going to help you with your messaging, that's going to be different than just like a copywriter who's going to dive in and start writing. So I'd be like, hey, I need messaging help. You want to go and look for someone who has that experience and he wants to help you craft your message. If you're looking for someone to do like ongoing copy or going to want to retain your copywriter. If you're wanting someone to help you on your launch, you're probably going to want a project based launch copywriter. So there's a bunch of different specifics you can get into, but I'd say define your needs, tap your network, and also go to some of those freelance platforms. I think it's copy hackers? Yeah, it's a really great website to check out. Upwork is also another one, but I would start with your network for sure.

Teresa: 14:02                   

Well, I love though that, back it up, it's like you're saying, and this is one of the six keys that I talk about in my hiring process, is identifying the role that you need for your business. So I love that you broke it down and I've never heard it broken down quite like that before where it's like if you need help with your messaging or if you need help with ongoing copy or if you need launch copy. It's almost like three camps, although someone can do all of them, I love how it's more specialized and very focused because someone might be awesome at the messaging but not like having fun in the launch stuff, and et cetera, et cetera. I love how you broke that down. So cool. Well I'd love to know like, what would you say is a good process or things to look from I guess the business owner side, looking for a copywriter, which I feel like you've already sprinkled in some great like truthbombs here and there about what to look for. But like if there were three things that you're like, hey, if you're looking for a copywriter, definitely look for A, B and C.

Kate: 15:10                   

That's a great question. I would say definitely look for someone who meets your specific needs of the project. So again, if you need messaging work, make sure they have experience on working on that messaging and that collaboration. If you're doing launch copy, make sure they've written for a launch before, so make sure they fit your qualifications and your needs. The other thing I would say is make sure you have someone who's a good communicator. So, so much happens in the business world and especially on a project like a launch, communication is so, so, so key. Make sure you have someone who has bought into collaborating with you, wants you as part of the process. I believe that's how you get the best copy so my recommendation would be look for a writer who wants to like, niche in with you and really bring you into the process, and is gonna be open to communicating about their process. And then the last thing I would say is look for someone that you have fun with. This person is an extension of your voice, which is an extension of your purpose. So you really want someone that you gel with. I mean, I'm biased. I have amazing, amazing, amazing clients. Like I would go to lunch with all of my clients, like I'd hang out with them, I'd go on vacation, like I love them all. And what's helpful for me is the more time I spend with them as a writer, the more I get to know their voice, you know, the things they use, little quirks in the way they communicate and vice versa. They know what to expect of me. And it's much easier for me to get into their world and their flow. So I would say find someone that you gel with and that you would enjoy spending time with. Right? Like, would you have a conversation with this person outside of the call to review your copy? You should want to spend some time with your copywriter, because it's going to help. They're an extension of you.

Teresa: 17:00                   

Ooh, I love that last one, because you're right. Things get tough sometimes. And, when it's team like, you know, you hear the whole like work hard, play hard, but if you're going to have these conversations, wouldn't it be so much more fun to have it with somebody that gets you but can laugh about the same things you laugh about, and have fun. And I love that because I think sometimes when we're so serious about our work, we forget that fun element of it is so important, right? So I love that. Well, okay, let's turn the tables a little bit and I would love to hear as a copywriter and clearly you've worked with some top entrepreneurs, you've worked in corporate as well. What are things that you cause I mean I totally understand and I want my audience to know that when you are looking for someone who has a specific talent, a specific way that they can serve your business, that they're also interviewing you. So it's not just that like are you on my terms, but you're also interviewing them because you want to have that fun partnership, right? So tell us like what, what are things that you look for and you know, it may not be the same as every copywriter, but this is like a little insight into Kate Dramis in case they want to maybe hire you. What are things you look for in a client and partner?

Kate: 18:30                   

The first thing I'm going to look at is like, am I excited about the project? So if I can't get excited about it, then I shouldn't be writing on it because I'm not going to show up as my best. I already know that. So am I excited about the project, is what you're offering, what you're selling? Like am I behind it from, you know, a principles and moral standpoint? Am I like behind your energy use, alignment, I'm looking for all of that. All of the feelings, right? Like I'm like into my feelings, like do we jive, and I behind and excited about what you have to offer? I feel like I should be going out and like promoting as a conversion copywriter. Oh, I stand by this so much, like I should be able to sell your stuff for you all the time. And I should want to tell my friends about your products and services because I have to sell it to your audience through your copy. So I need to be behind it, right? Like if it's not something that I'd recommend my business bestie go take, I'm not gonna take project. The other thing that I look for, which is huge for me, is boundaries. So I want to make sure that I'm working with a client that is good at or meets me in the middle with communicating boundaries and respecting boundaries. So I think it's really interesting as a copywriter, I am an extension of you, but I'm also not an employee of yours. I have my own team, I have my own business.

Kate: 19:47                   

And with launching and time and juggling multiple clients as a copywriter, I need to be really good at communicating my boundaries and my availability and like how we operate. And I also need clients that are on board with that. And it's more of how you operate, right? Like some clients really like to have a copywriter who's an extension of their team, who's always on call, who's always available. I know in my business I don't operate that way. I'm not a good fit for you. There are copywriters who do, there are some clients who are like this is our project, we'll talk then, we'll talk to you later. Like it's very, very cut and dry. So for me it's knowing how do you operate your business? What are your boundaries, what are my boundaries and do those align?

Kate: 20:27                   

It's really, really, really huge. So I would say from the business owner side, be sure you're being clear about your expectations. Like, do you want a copywriter who's on call all the time? That's going to be a different hire than, you know, a project based copywriter who's coming in to help you and support you on a launch. If they're in a launch, do you want like live updates? What does that look like? What are your expectations with the copywriter? So that's something I'm looking forward to, like do you expect me to be on at midnight? If so, I'm probably not the copywriter for you and that sort of structure and how our working styles are. So boundaries and working styles, it's really important to me. Those are really the two biggest things that I look for. I'm like, am I excited about what you have to offer? Do I want to feel like a part of your team? And then, also, are we on the same page about expectations?

Teresa: 21:16                   

Yeah, no, I love it. And I love that you distinguish that there's different kinds of copywriters and like, you know, it's just like everyone's unique in their business- it's business by design, right? So like you have for in, in some copywriters may be like, hey, I'm there for you. You know, like I'm on call. And there are others like yourself who are like, hey, this is the time I can have for you. This is the structure that I'd like to work with. And what you're saying is you want to find someone who also operates with great boundaries and that's important because especially when it comes to copy or something like Facebook ads or you know, it's just like, it's almost like when the person has that moment of like, Ooh, I need this. Like, they just want to instantly call you up.

Kate: 22:06                   

Yeah, for sure. For sure. And as a copywriter, I mean you're just like, I took multiple clients, right? And so there was, I think it was April, there was a time I was working on like six launches all at once. So I had, I was, and it was great because all of my clients would be like, this is what I'm working on, you have this one available, this is how to get ahold of me, this is the response time you can expect. And had I not had that, I wouldn't have been able to do it. Like I would have just been like, it would've been a free for all.

Teresa: 22:32                   

Seriously. Oh my gosh. I don't know how you juggled all of that.

Kate: 22:35                   

It was a lot. It was fun, but it was a lot.

Teresa: 22:39                   

Yeah, for sure. Oh, I do have a question in the process a lot of people ask about- is it appropriate to do a writing test and what would a writing test look like?

Teresa: 22:52                   

That's a great question. I would say, I mean from my perspective, I think when I first started out I maybe would have said okay to a writing test. Now of where I am in my career, I should just be able to send you a sample of my work in order for you to see if that's something that's gonna that's gonna work for you, in my opinion. I also think that there's something to be said for doing a trial project with a copywriter. Again, it's going to be based on like how experienced they are, like what they're looking for. But I always tell my, especially in new clients, like I don't take on anyone on an ongoing basis and I always tell them like, our first project is for us to get to know each other and made sure that this is going to be something that like we want to do on a regular basis and that we want to repeat. So I don't even like calling it trials, I like project-based like trial test projects more than writing tests. If you're hiring, I mean it depends on the type of copywriter you're looking for, but if you're hiring from the copywriting side, if you're hiring like a top copywriter, they're probably not going to have time to take your test. They're busy writing on someone's launch or something. So like maybe ask for their portfolio or like, look at what they're doing if you want to see samples of their work, or start them on a small portion of your project.

Teresa: 24:11                   

I love it. Okay. Yeah. I'm like, Oh, let's get real about it. Because I mean it is, it is. I was talking to someone recently and she was very like, I haven't outsourced the copy at all because it's my voice and how do I know they're gonna write in my voice? They might be able to write in somebody else's voice, but I don't know if it's mine. And so it's like an interesting dance, right? Like what people feel comfortable with, but at the end of the day, everything is going to take a risk, right? I mean that's the game of entrepreneurship and communication.

Kate: 24:44                   

Yeah.

Teresa: 24:44                   

You have that great rapport. Like you were saying, have fun, they feel aligned with what you're doing, you've got great communication and boundaries. Then, you know, it's really a win-win situation, isn't it?

Kate: 24:55                   

Yeah, for sure. And I think there are some things you can build into that, right? Like you can build into your contract that they're going to do the first part of the project. You're going to evaluate, check in and like build that. I would say built that in rather than giving someone a test because you're asking them to invest time into your business. So I think that investing into them as well in some sort of way. And really, I mean, what, what's the, uh, the transformations from the transaction right? I think that's true for hiring too, right? Like if you're asking someone to do a service, I feel like you can shorten the length of it, shorten the depth of it, versus asking them to like go and like, maybe do something for free.

Teresa: 25:37                   

I love it. I love it. I do have one final question and it has actually more to do with you and like what you are reading right now and what kind of podcasts you're listening to. Like, what are things that have been lighting you up inspiring you and yeah. So tell us about that.

Kate: 25:54                   

I love this question. Um, so I just recently I was on a, like on a business book kick and then I realized that it was actually not helping my creativity at all. Um, and writing's a very creative art. And so I, I just started reading this fiction series. Um, and I've started like really diving back into fiction. I love to read and I love to read fiction books. And so my friend recommended a book called six of crows and it was so good. There's like, there's a duology and then there's a trilogy that comes before. And so I've just been like in this whole weird sci-fi fantasy world, which I'm not really into sci-fi or, I mean I love Harry Potter, but like outside of that I'm like leisure. Yeah. But like I just, Oh my gosh, I've actually been spending my time outside of work, unplugging completely from work and really diving into like that and I actually write fiction. Um, so I've been like working on my own writing. So I, after work, if I'm going to write, everything's off. Like all of the tabs are gone. I'm usually hand writing so I don't get distracted on my computer because I love my job so much. I could probably like just hop on and start coaching, but I actually I write fiction and then I read fiction is what I've been doing a lot lately.

Teresa: 27:08                   

Ooh, I love it. Yeah, you're right. We can be influenced and inspired by other things that yeah, sometimes we just need to unplug our brain from the business thing and I'm, I'm guilty. Like I'll watch documentaries and I'll like do all the, and I know it's like a nice nap for me, but you're right, I could go into more fiction, which I do love too.

Kate: 27:27                   

Well, and I think it's like different strokes for different folks. There are definitely times where I'm like, oh, I really want to read this business development book. But I was on a kick of like listening to podcasts and reading business development books, and then I felt like I was spending all of my time in my business and I was like, Oh man, I just I need a break for a second. So that's how I been like giving my brain that space and it's done wonders my creativity. It's done wonders.

Teresa: 27:51                   

Good. So good. Now do you have a life motto mantra like verse something that you like kind of live by?

Kate: 28:00                   

Oh my gosh, yes. Actually I do. I'm so my sort of mantra for this year and like for the last, oh my gosh, like probably two years since I started my business, since I went through my massive shift. So, not everyone's familiar with my story about like I was building my business while simultaneously rebuilding my life last year and it was a very scary time but exciting time. But I was like trying to juggle, like I just got out of a very toxic relationship, like build, rebuild my life, build my business, figure out what I want to do. And I was just like, oh gosh, what do I do? Um, and at the time a friend of mine told me about this game and it was called What Are the Odds? And I just started thinking about like the odds of things happening and the odds of like businesses surviving and all of this.

Kate: 28:46                   

And I started to get into my head about like, okay, well how do I want my attitude to be in life and how do I want my attitude to be in business? And I decided that what I wanted to encompass was that I was going to go all in no matter what the odds were. And so, and it stemmed from this conversation of this game, which I'm pretty sure it's actually a drinking game, this conversation about this game called what are the odds? And I remember being like, man, like, so like what are like what are the best odds? And then I like was like getting into all the probabilities and I was like, you know what? Like who cares about the odds? Like I'm going to do it anyways. And so I actually have in my office at home, I have a piece of paper that, um, I wrote like on the back of it, it's like forget the odds. And on the front of it it says all in and I actually have like a necklace that has my mantra of all in on it. And that's my, that's how I show up in life. I go all in no matter what the odds are.

Teresa: 29:34                   

I love that. Oh my God, that's so powerful.

Kate: 29:39                   

Actually, I don't think I've ever told anyone that story before!

Teresa: 29:42                   

Wow, okay. Thank you for sharing it! I mean that is very powerful. I think you need to tell more people!

Kate: 29:46                   

Yeah, right? I should!

Teresa: 29:46                   

Yes, girl, I love it! Wow, well thank you so much for joining me live on Facebook and sharing your story, sharing your powerful mantra, hearing about all of your wisdom when it comes to hiring and working with copywriting. I know that this has been invaluable to the audience and I know that they're going to be making great choices now with the advice that you've given and with the insight that you have and so, and you guys, I'm going to link it up if you want to reach out to Kate Dramis. She's I think still for hire? Yeah, like I know she might have a full books, but yeah.

Kate: 30:29                   

Yeah, they can reach out to me! I am full on one-on-one copywriting clients right now, but I do do a lot of like ongoing copy education. So I'm always open to talking to anybody, just getting to know you guys for sure. So for sure, reach out please.

Teresa: 30:43

And you're on Kate Dramis on all the socials?

Kate: 30:45

On all the socials, all the things. That's how you can find me.

Teresa: 30:49

Yeah. Awesome. Well thank you so much for joining me online and you guys like, feel free to comment below, let us know like what was your biggest takeaway from this talk? If you have any questions, tag us, share this out with anyone that you know, that needs to hear, like about solid copywriting relationships because some of us have been burned a little bit, but you know, pick it up at the time. And, um, yeah, so thanks for joining us online, tune in next week. We're gonna have another live and keep talking, going on forward on how to build that Dream Team for you. So anyway, thank you again Kate and I will see you guys next week! Thanks guys.


If you’re interested in seeing how Kate can help you with copy, check her out her website and social accounts linked below!

Website

Facebook
I
nstagram


If you’re not looking for a copywriter, maybe you’re looking for a Facebook Ads Manager or Integrator! If so, you may also like these interviews:

Interview with an Integrator: Nikki Samaniego

Interview with a Facebook Ads Manager: Liz Melville

Hope you enjoyed the interview! Let us know in the comments: do you hire out your copywriting, or are you doing it yourself? What’s your process when it comes to working with a copywriter? What’s holding you back from outsourcing your copy?